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TOXIKK Forum • View topic - Ammo

Ammo

Suggest New or Discuss existing Features and Feature Tweaks
Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:23 am

  • I just played for several hours and I have to say, the ammo balance is seriously screwed up now. I'm a very conservative player, I don't spam and I don't rush into fights. Even so, in FFA, in addition to it being extremely difficult to get a weapon off spawn, maintaining ammo is basically impossible unless you are actively timing or just guarding weapon spawns once you get said weapon (particularly bad at the bullcraft spawn). I'm sorry, but I've played a lot of arena shooters over the years and NEVER have I felt so unarmed as running around in Toxikk. When we had the original Cerberus, it was such an efficient killing machine that it masked this issue. You could get 7-10 kills on a maxed out Cerberus before, and because of that you didn't have to expend the ammo of your other weapons very much because you'd only use them as an adjunct. Additionally, fights were ended more quickly when the Cerberus was so powerful so you rarely had time to expend much ammo. With the Cerb now a COMPLETELY different weapon (though I hope it gets changed more, as I've mentioned in other threads), the ammo values no longer worn and must be revisited.

    This problem is pretty much completely killing my enjoyment of the game at this point in a pub environment, even when I have the keg and 100a locked down I still have trouble getting into any kind of rhythm because I am constantly running out with one weapon or another. The ammo values seriously need to be revisited. Maybe it's a bit much to post this in high priority problems, but I feel strongly enough about this that it could very well cause me to lose interest in the game, and I doubt other people enjoy feeling like they can never maintain ammo over the course of a match either. I want to see this game be successful, and I don't really see how it can be a good experience when the ammo counts are incapable of sustaining the action of the game. This issue is to some degree related to the weaponstay issue, but it's more just the starting, ammo pack, and max values of the weapons. It feels like they need about a 30% boost across the board. Is this driving anybody else nuts?

    Edit: Upon thinking about this more, another possible solution would be to have weapons dropped on death give a set amount (probably same as the base spawn) a la Quake. This would make things a lot less frustrating when you struggle to defend yourself against an armored opponent, kill him, and take his Cerberus only to find it has 1 shot left in it. This always bugged me in UT and I think changing it would go a long way to solve the ammo shortage.
    Lethargy
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Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:31 am

  • I've found myself just as effiicient with the cerberus I don't see that much change.

    That said Ammo is just way to low I say raise it all 50% and limit the pistol ammo
    but make the pistol a bit less shitty with it's fire rate and damage.
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    Rainbow Dash
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Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:18 pm

  • I agree with Lethargy on this. The ammo just feels like it empties out instantly. Also, it's really annoying to tell the difference between the Falcon/Violator ammo and I'm still not even sure what the Bullcraft ammo looks like.
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    King Rynex
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Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:08 pm

  • Lethargy struggled for ammo so much he went 30-0 twice in a row.

    Agreed though, the Cerberus spawn time is so high now and ammo count so low your fun with the Cerberus always feel short lived. With the tweaks to damage it's no longer a redeemer so ammo capacity could be increased, especially if it's damage output takes another hit.

    The Violator also feels like if you have to take down more than two targets your gonna run empty, especially if you plan on using its alternate fire mode.

    The Falcon feels about right, I'm unsure on the Stingray, personally the alternate fire might perhaps use up too much ammo. The Bullcraft ammo seems fine, atleast on Foundation.

    I just feel there should be more ammo clips around the map to encourage players to leave the 'safety' of their prefered weapon and power up spawn.
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    IntolerableOne
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Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:07 am

    Lethargy
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Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:18 am

  • If I run out of ammo in Bullcraft, I'll switch to Violator/Stingray. Does not happen often since dead people drop their weapon.
    And anyone who is not camping one location have several weapons with full ammo capacity.

    Cerberus has additional rockets between Cerberus and Bullcraft spawn. More than enough considering that it is no aim weapon.
    (read: shoot into long pathway and hope someone will enter it in middle or at end)
    I use Cerberus only if I have no other weapon (Raven does not count while quite good.), I even prefer Falcon on relatively small map over Cerberus.
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Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:43 pm

    Lethargy
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Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:49 pm

  • I'm very flexible when it comes to weapons. I just use what i grab. My issue is that even when i can get a weapon, the chance that all other weapons in your vicinity are very likely to be locked down by someone else, and that also applies to the ammo that lies around the map. This can result in 3 situations:
    1. You run into so many opponents that you run out of ammo -> forced to use raven, likely to result in death.

    2. You don't run into to many opponents, grab other weapons and ammo stocks, and run around the map in a circle just for the sake of having other weapons and enough ammo to have a backup plan.

    3. You stay with your weapon and ammo in your eyesight, and lock down the weapon you are standing on yourself.

    Situation 1 doesn't really have much to do with skill. Even if you hit every shot just perfect, you'll eventually find yourself in an unbalanced scenario.
    Situation 2 is slightly acceptable. You might leave a trace of emptyness, but you don't camp and you don't lock specific weapons.
    Situation 3 is unacceptable. The gameflow is slowed down and you end up camping in one spot. Either you just frag everyone passing the area you are protecting or you get rushed down sooner or later.

    A solution would either be that you have Individual weaponspawns or reduce the ammo scattered around the map and replace it with ammo that can be used for the weapon you are currently wielding. It doesn't make much sense trying to cater ammo for every weapon at every spot of the map and still seperate the ammo type. You either end up having not enough ammo distributed and being forced to run back for the specific ammo stock or you place ammospawns of every type all over the map, which would completly defy the logic of having seperate ammo types in the first place.
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    R5on11c
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Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:17 pm

  • I'm definitely against unified ammo packs, Quake Live did this and it just makes the maps feel a lot less interesting. It's cool having to think "I'm out of rockets, where is the nearest rocket ammo? Can I make due with Bullcraft ammo? It's slightly closer and will be a safer route, but I'd rather have rockets right now..." and be forced to make complex choices like that. I really feel like the ammo values are just way too low right now, 30% more across the board both initial and max would go a long way to make the game flow better and be more enjoyable. As would weaponstay or something like it for Bloodlust.
    Lethargy
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Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:19 pm

  • Sorry, i didn't try to make the impression that unified ammopacks were viable to me.

    I'd also say that weaponstay would make the game more enjoyable. I often find myself looking down at the respawn timer while fighting off someone just to pass the right moment or better simply wait infront of a weaponspawn like some dude waiting for an application.
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