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TOXIKK Forum • View topic - Suggestions for a satisfying and balanced melee

Suggestions for a satisfying and balanced melee

Suggest New or Discuss existing Features and Feature Tweaks

  • In this post I'll be offering a few suggestions for how to make the Ravager or some melee weapon/attack useful.

    Problems with the current weapon
    The Ravager's close range damage is fairly useless due to the fast and exciting movement in Toxikk. At best you can get a second of wonderful, bloody damage against an unsuspecting opponent which might kill with energy. Against an aware opponent the Ravager is next to useless. And simply increasing the damage wouldn't change much until it could kill a full-health opponent in a single, brief hit, which would be situationally overpowered, and would give no chance to the enemy if the player could get close for that moment. Here are a few possible solutions.

    Idea 1: Use energy to send out a close-range low damage wave with knockback.
    This would be used mainly as a counter for the bullcraft and dragoneer, as well as providing a way to send foes comically sailing through the air in floaty physics mode. Damage would be fairly low, and for balance it might need a brief charging time. It could also require energy.

    Idea 2: Knock down enemies. This would reward players who manage to get close and don't wish to take the splash damage. It could however provide too much power to players with a high-dps, no area of effect weapon as they could quickly switch and kill the enemy without giving them a chance.

    Idea 3: Pure damage and some ammo savings. A strike like in Tribes: Ascend could reward stealth usage.

    Some of these could use energy (especially 1).

    Thanks for your time.
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  • I can't say I've used the Ravager enough to provide my input on this, but I honestly feel that it was always useless to begin with. I kinda wish it'd get scrapped and the Raven would go back to having infinite ammo.

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  • I wouldn't mind the primary fire being an exact copy of the Q3 gauntlet. That's pretty much the quick and dirty, easy fix IMO.

    The biggest problem with the weapon's current form seems to be the range. Melee does not mean zero range, it just means short range. Even fighting with a pocket knife, you have a range equal to the length of your arms + a few extra inches. Fighting with a sword, or a spear, or a power tool, your range is equal to the length of your arms + the length of the weapon.

    In Toxikk, the length of the player's arms and the length of the weapon itself seem to count for nothing. It feels like you have to chest bump the enemy to deal any damage, and since the weapon deals gradual damage over time, rather than unleashing damage in single 50hp instantaneous bursts, it's just not good enough.

    I don't actually mind the weapon functioning closer to the UT99 chainsaw (optional mutator) rather than the impact hammer or gauntlet, but if that's going to be the case, skimping on range just won't do.

    Another way to have burst damage without an over-easy auto-attacking mechanic as in the impact hammer and gauntlet, would be to have the weapon work in swings. When you hit the attack button, the avatar would swing the weapon to do a bunch of damage in an instant, but it would have its own cooldown time where no damage is dealt, as the avatar winds up to take another swing.

    I am fine with any of these options but agree that one of these changes needs to happen.
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  • After a bit of puzzling stuff out I think I'd prefer the constant close range affect that knocks down combined with a kickback burst on alt fire, though having the drill briefly expand into an evil tornado of rusty pain on alt fire could also work as a tribes style melee would be satisfying and reward the sneaky.
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  • How about increasing base running speed of the player while having the ravager equipped AND while holding in LMB?
    Alternatively, as it was mentioned here, if it worked the same way as the gauntlet in Q3 but again with an increase in running speed.

    In a game where mastery of movement is essential to success, having a melee weapon which changes the circumstances a bit while in combat could result in quite epic encounters. :yes:
    Having to out-maneuver someone who is closing the distance quickly with a melee weapon could be quite frantic, I think.
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  • hehe... like the knife in CS. Everybody switches to the knife to run faster... but I doubt that combining CS and old-school FPS mechanics is the key to satisfying melee.

    It's true that melee right now is not worth mentioning. So, the least thing we'll do is to make the Ravager a "knock-down weapon" (i.e. you fall down when you're hit by its primary fire... an idea that also came from this board) and to increase the initial damage you take from that hit.

    It could be a satisfying sequence to A) cause higher damage and knock down an enemy with the Ravager's primary and then B) finish him off with the Ravager's alternate (the welding beam) while your opponent is trying to get up.
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  • haha yes! my ravager matches are going to be awesome!
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  • I remember a patchnote mistake about a ravager-jump :D is that still planned? :D
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