Weapon Variety

Suggest New or Discuss existing Features and Feature Tweaks
Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:45 pm

  • I didn't play Toxikk for a long time now, so I don't really know if my issue is still up to date, but from what I saw in the update news this is still an issue for me and I think for many others too.
    I LOVED UT, and I like the way Toxikk is doing very much! But I still miss a very fundamental thing, the variety of weapons!
    The weapons differ in damage, rate of fire [RoF], area of effect [AoE], ammo, projectile speed and projectile range. But all weapons have in common that their projectiles fly straight forward and that they end there. This is the reason why for me all weapons play almost the same. You do not have much of a strategy change when switching weapons or better said you do not have other strategy options no matter which weapon you choose. (Besides the most of the time you are happy that you have a weapon at all.)

    You cannot hit an enemy behind a wall. In UT you could do this and much more:
    - [Reflected Shot, Flak] You had projectiles which bounced off the wall, reflected there to hit an opponent like poolbillard.
    - [Curved Shot, Flak] You could fire a projectile like a grenade with a flying curve radius much smaller than the Violator grenade to fire above a wall and to hit close behind.
    - [Big AoE, Shock Combo] You could prove your foreseeing of opponent movement and your aim skill by taking the risk of a long execution shot to perform a high damage shot with big AoE.
    - [Trap Shot, Bio Rifle] You could fire a mine like shot which would stay in its position for a few seconds. If you knew that your opponent would get this way in a few seconds you would set the trap and give much damage.
    - [Shielding Shot, Shield Gun] I know it was lame, but it gave the game a big strategy option in addition, though.
    - [Linked Shot, Link Gun] You could use your gun to empower a teammates firepower by standing near him and linking with his gun to boost the damage to more than both of you could have done individually. This gave you the possibility to have the fire power of a whole team while only one of the team stood beside the cover in the risk of being hit.

    I miss these options very much. It must not be exactly these strategy options from UT, it can be new ones, this would even be better to help Toxikk become a unique stand-alone game and this is what misses in my point of view, comparing with it's clone original UT. I call to add more strategy options, for the player to develop more tactics and for the gameplay to enhance its variety. Otherwise Toxikk will be UT's little brother where all the uncool bullied or angry players from the UT playground went off to.

    There are so many strategy options which Toxikk can add to make it unique and not only a "clone-of-another-game":

    - [Flame Combo Shot] Make the Dragoneer fire a continuous jet of oil in a curve, then you inflame the trail of oil with the primary fire at your end, the trail gets inflamed successively and explodes at the other end.
    - [Manipulation Shot] After firing a shot you can change the flight curve by using the secondary device of the gun to change the flight curve of the projectile to hit opponents behind walls. Maybe a razorblade like in the movie "Wild Wild West" but only controlled manually. Or a rocket flying slow until you turn you view and hit the secondary fire to command the projectile to start the rocket boost and fly in this direction with high speed. This way you could fire from behind walls/edges.
    - [Wall Ride Shot] A shot which travels straight forward until the projectile hits a wall to ride. The projectile will travel along the wall/ground/ceiling/hill no matter which curve it may have for a limited distance. You can hit the secondary to make the projectile jump off from the wall for about 2 meters to hit an opponent. This way you could shoot the corner, let it travel few milliseconds around the corner and make the projectile jump off to hit an opponent behind the corner.
    - [Electro Whip Stroke] A close combat weapon which needs to be hurled by moving the mouse (mouse gestures) in a whip like way to swing at the opponent, doing damage, entangle him and pull up to you like the DotA pudge.
    - [Etc.] All you guys out there definitely can think of more cool weapon feature and strategy options!?

    I know it is a great risk to implement new options now where the game is almost ready to be released. But you devs always must keep in mind what gets and keeps the players playing Toxikk and not the new UT when it's finished.
    Why should they play Toxikk? Because it's like another game? No. Because Toxikk is like Toxikk! That must be the reason! Make it the great game it should be to convince the people of it.

    P.S.: The timed invisible suit feature is an example of a good strategy option. More of these features for the weapons!
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Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:14 pm

  • Coming from UT I also found that TOXIKK weapons were somewhat bland - which was a complain that came up very shortly after early access release.

    However with time, and getting to know more players and their point of view, I eventually realized that Quake, which is as popular as UT, has even more simplistic weapons. In the end, with these weapons, TOXIKK could be a good middle-ground, with UT's movement but more simplistic weapons like Quake.

    At least that's what I'm trying to convince myself ^^ it's not easy to get off from UT where weapons are so cool - yet I hear quake players say they are "gimmicky" :p I guess some prefer using simple weapons and focus on mastering aim and movement.

    UT adds a whole layer of mastering difficulty with its weapons variety, and I'm not sure if Reakktor really intends to add more skill gap in the game - they already stated (explicitly when we were talking about some weapons features) that they want to avoid increasing the skill gap too much from what it is already. Also, it's not that easy to find good, fun, and balanced weapons features to add in the game like that.

    That being said, I'm still all for it, and Reakktor considers everything. So if someone can come up with perfect ideas, don't be afraid to post them. Some have been discussed like: changing flame spray to a flame beam (will be implemented), changing bullcraft alt so you have to hold-load the second pellet before firing, various ideas about how to make use of cerberus secondary (such as curving the rocket) etc... Reakktor will be focusing on weapon-tweaking for a few weeks Soon™, so it will be the time to bring back up all the good ideas.
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:13 pm

  • If the repair beam could cause damage to enemies, the Ravager would be a more versatile melee weapon.
    As is, The Ravager is a quite boring tool. It can't be used for jump tricks, protect you from enemy fire or similar.
    The melee damage is not a sure frag if you hit, and the secondary fire mode is not really useful - the energy consumption is too high, the repair effect too low and vehicles go down really fast anyway.
    People are using this gun only if they don't care about the outcome of a match, which definitely should not be the case.
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:53 pm

  • UT3VegasKill wrote:If the repair beam could cause damage to enemies, the Ravager would be a more versatile melee weapon.
    As is, The Ravager is a quite boring tool. It can't be used for jump tricks, protect you from enemy fire or similar.
    The melee damage is not a sure frag if you hit, and the secondary fire mode is not really useful - the energy consumption is too high, the repair effect too low and vehicles go down really fast anyway.
    People are using this gun only if they don't care about the outcome of a match, which definitely should not be the case.

    ...the repair beam does do damage to enemies.
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:29 am

  • Equim wrote:...the repair beam does do damage to enemies.
    well, ok o)
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:40 am

  • Ravager secondary does half the damage of primary, but has slightly longer range. I'd still like the range to be increased a bit. Obivously I'm not talking about a link gun, but maybe a meter extra would be nice.

    Also the ravager was recently changed (with last patch) to be slightly easier to hit, but without increasing the damage. I don't know the exact time values, but it was modified in the following way : it used to require "0.4" second of continuous hit to apply a 40 damage, and now it requires "0.2" second of continuous hit to apply 20 damage. So the damage may appear lower, but it will hit more often / be easier to hit. Same thing for secondary but with half the damage.
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